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2018 MTS Calendar Contest - posted on 12th Nov 2017 at 8:48 PM
Replies: 30 (Who?), Viewed: 1563 times.
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Inventor
Original Poster
#1 Old 16th Oct 2017 at 11:02 PM
Default How would you interpret a Sim interested in film/literature hobby if they can't read (illiterate) or not allowed Tv's?
I only play historical hoods, so I don't allow most entertaining type electronics and sims with certain lifestyles are not allowed education, so they are basically alliterated. (Think poverty, slavery, homeless etc type of people wasn't able to afford it.).
Still, Toddlers and children are able to listening to other reading stories for them and you don't need to understand the writing, if you can listening to others stories or a play, right?

Playing historical themed or just a castaway hood, it make this a bit challenging if you have a sim who is interested in film and literature if there is no books or tv's available. Looking at the wiki guides, they all seems to suggest bookcases only. I've some CC that substitute computers and TV-s with crystal balls (find it a bit too magical in some families), but are there any other alternatives (both vanilla and CC) for a film/literature enthusiast sim who wasn't able to get any education how to read?

Currently a bit loss whether to ignore this hobby for sims who are in this situation. Although, I often see historical movies where they engage in watching plays on the streets or non-cinema theatres, so I'm not sure if its possible to simulate in some way.


(Although this is a more specific type of thread, Im not sure if this one is more suitable in random question, as the topic what sims can do are a bit subjective)
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Turquoise Dragon
staff: moderator
#2 Old 16th Oct 2017 at 11:15 PM
Did telling stories do anything for that?
Inventor
Original Poster
#3 Old 16th Oct 2017 at 11:19 PM
According Sims Wikia
"Activities that raise a Sim's enthusiasm in film and literature are:
Available to toddlers and children:
Being read to (toddler and child)

Available to children and up:
Reading a book (other than cooking book)[TS2:FT]
Watching Sims Broadcasting Network, KidzTube, or movie[TS2:FT]
Reading the Entertainment section in the newspaper or the Modern Media Magazine[TS2:FT]
Browsing web about film and literature[TS2:FT]
Blogging about film and literature[TS2:FT]
Telling stories about fame[TS2:AL]
Dreaming about film and literature "

so yes, it should. But out of the 10 freetime hobbies, i find it has the fewest options in gameplay and consider rare to have in vanilla. I random my sims OTH and change it with hacks.
#4 Old 16th Oct 2017 at 11:22 PM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 16th Oct 2017 at 11:33 PM.
I don't use CC at the moment, but I really can't think of a sim would films&literature enthusiasm other than using books. "Talk[ing] about <that hobby>" interaction would help out If let's say If a slave is already conducting conversion or a nearby acquainted literal person is by their sight, so that these uneducated beings have at least some points in that particular development area for their psyciological growing suspense, or you coul just try to initiate "discuss ..." interaction with between the illiterate and the actual literate person and pretend that (s)he is reading for/to the illiterate person (you might need to ignore the fact the illeterate is holding the literate item, i.e. the book, or...). If that all fails, I guess you could be depented on your imagination: think of these "books" (or scrolls, If you take them as such for) having pictures/drawings instead of words and letters, thus analyzing art instead of literature (although that hobby doesn't fit it's own term any more).
#5 Old 16th Oct 2017 at 11:38 PM
More of an storyline idea than a suggestion to help you with the addressed dilemma, but maybe those who have that hobby highlighted could perhaps be destined to become illiterate at some point eventually?
Mad Poster
#6 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 12:19 AM
The "film and literature" hobby really should be called the "narrative" hobby, because the things that raise that enthusiasm involve the narration of stories in those media. Reading for information and watching non-movie TV channels do not boost it.

Narrative of course precedes literacy by quite some time, and spoken language, music, visual arts, and dance have always been called to the service of narrative. It may be possible for a novice recolorer to create an invisible recolor of books. Reading an invisible book to another sim would have the same effect as telling a story. The AL "tell story" interaction does not get much love but could come in handy for your situation. Alas, these interactions are between single sims, and preliterate - even to a degree post-literate - storytelling is a group activity - nobody has ever sat idle telling themselves stories in a connected fashion. Daydreaming is an essential part of creation, but the hard work of creating and polishing a story is done during routine work that keep the hands busy and demand little of the head. (Agatha Christie used to say she did her best work when washing dishes.)

An invisible recolor of the AL microphone would allow use of the "Recite Poetry" function to build creativity and simulate telling stories to an audience. The Entertain/Freestyle interaction does the same, but if your list is correct it won't raise film and literature enthusiasm. The Uni bonfire has a "tell stories" option but it doesn't always show up and I don't know what the conditions are to make it available. I

I believe one of Sophie-David's hacks is a storybook that can be read to groups. I had to take it out before I got a chance to really use it, because it prevented my sims from reading books normally, but in a preliterate society this hardly matters; and even among the literate classes solitary reading was unusual for centuries, partly because books were rare and valuable and partly because life was so communal and so much work had to be done even by what today would be leisured classes. Literature was mostly consumed while working in a group, with one of the group reading out loud. If it works as I remember, then, the storybook should be ideal for your purposes.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Field Researcher
#7 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 12:19 AM
Think film is tied to creativity, so I would get them painting as their means of telling stories. You can raise their hobby influence with other things.

Some deco objects will increase enthusiasm of the hobby. Unfortunately doubt anyone knows which objects do what. I know that movie posters raise film enthusiasm but it's a case of trial and error on that one. There's also talk options that are tied to hobby enthusiasm, so I'd make use of that.

I use Sophie-David's Opportunity Pack Lecterns, Books and accessories. They allow you to increase not only skills, but also interests and enthusiasm through listening or performing lectures or reading books. Your sims can even get paid, or use it for business. The Sims 2 Opportunity Pack Lectern & Accessories The whole system has quite a few mods, but you can pick and choose. I use Sophie-David's packs to build proper hobby lots.
Inventor
Original Poster
#8 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 12:26 AM
I've many of the Sophie-David's mods as I like the invisible re-colors and other alternatives to learn skills/badges, but never started to use them but gonna check them out. Skills, Badges, Hobbies and Marriage are the main aspects I focusing on so Freetime/Season are the EP's I mostly use.
Alchemist
#9 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 12:44 AM
Would you consider a hacked object cloned from a TV? There is a children's puppet theatre here which could work. The pictures are from TS3 but it does seem to be a TS2 object if you download it. Hopefully it's FT updated. http://sims2.aroundthesims3.com/obj...ursery_010.html

Fee-essen also has a nice toddler "puppet theatre" which uses the dollhouse animations which works surprisingly well! Again I wonder if this could be modded to build enthusiasm. I bet that wouldn't be a hard mod to do. Even the dollhouse itself - that's narrative and storytelling right there.

There is a perk with Pleasure aspiration to sing a folk song - that could count as storytelling, perhaps it could be modded to build F+L enthusiasm. Also, check the campfire interaction from the BV campfire - I think they can tell stories there?

Livejournal: simsfreq.livejournal.com
Tumblr: simsfreq.tumblr.com

Co sleeper for babies/toddlers, and teen career overhaul (also custom schools) Plus! TS2:UNI careers enabled for teens: Here at simbology
Top Secret Researcher
#10 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 1:03 AM
Does telling/listening to the Dragon Legend raise Film & Lit? Because it should!
Alchemist
#11 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 8:00 AM
Oh, maybe that's the BV action I was thinking of!

Livejournal: simsfreq.livejournal.com
Tumblr: simsfreq.tumblr.com

Co sleeper for babies/toddlers, and teen career overhaul (also custom schools) Plus! TS2:UNI careers enabled for teens: Here at simbology
Top Secret Researcher
#12 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 8:42 AM
I think sims can also tell stories around the BV campfire. No idea if it raises Film & Lit, though; I think most BV campfire interactions raise Nature?
Mad Poster
#13 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 9:33 AM
Of course, some sims in historical hoods (royals, middle class) would be able to read, would they not? How else would they write down laws and regulations?

And I believe that in every age, there has been literature.

As Peni points out, though, the role of story telling can never be underestimated. It was part of everyday life, and used to teach children the perceived differences between right and wrong.

The mod Peni refers to may be this one here: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=577564

I love this mod and it does not have any negative effects in my hood. Note that a sim needs 3 creativity points to become a story teller.

Windows 10 and the Ultimate Collection
http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=568275
Inventor
Original Poster
#14 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 5:21 PM
Justpetro.
Of course I've sims who can read but I was refering to people who cannot due to finnance or lifestyle problems such as:
Serfs (low rank Servants), peasants, outlaws (criminals), poor workers, homeless and time periods where females were not given much education, those types are one I'm trying to simulate to be illiterate. Majority of my upper and middle class sims can read. (It's rather annoying to keep having knowledge poor sims getting books when they are imagined to not be able to read them).

Im not super finicky with time periods, but my particular hood is set during the tudor area 16th country, but I dont think sims need to be from a specific time period to not know how to read the alphabet. Even modern society, there should exist people who can't or at least not accessing to books. My own issue focusing on the sims on the lower end of the hierarchy.

Picture/Story books that based on pictures makes sense though, so I'm going check the link.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 6:34 PM
Oh, I did get that part, @Florentzina.

I was thinking more along the lines of some of your royal sims being kind enough to read to a poor, illiterate child - depending on exactly how snotty they are

Windows 10 and the Ultimate Collection
http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=568275
#16 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 6:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peni Griffin
The "film and literature" hobby really should be called the "narrative" hobby, because the things that raise that enthusiasm involve the narration of stories in those media. Reading for information and watching non-movie TV channels do not boost it.

So I guess you could combine them into one thing, though I was preferring detaching that hobby into their respective two. Like with creative skill, It's kinda off that these hobbies are poorly assiosated as one, so your sim turns out to be professional dancer storywise, but at the same that makes them unnecessary good composer. Can't blame developers for taking that route, but I do think the &-nds (and maybe even games hobby could split into traditional and virtual) could branch into two.
#17 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 6:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justpetro
Oh, I did get that part, @Florentzina.

I was thinking more along the lines of some of your royal sims being kind enough to read to a poor, illiterate child - depending on exactly how snotty they are

Well as I mentioned, you could do it to adults If you're creative enough: imagine "Discuss a book" was translated to "Read to". That's how I would do it
Instructor
#18 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 7:18 PM Last edited by Sketching : 17th Oct 2017 at 7:37 PM. Reason: failed quoting is failed
Oh, my gosh, how do you quote?! I've been finagling with this for a while. Ugh, have a failed quote then:

Peni Griffin:
The "film and literature" hobby really should be called the "narrative" hobby, because the things that raise that enthusiasm involve the narration of stories in those media. Reading for information and watching non-movie TV channels do not boost it.

I cannot stress how much I love this. Come on, where are the dances that depict the founding of villages, grandmothers telling the children to beware the big bad wolf, paintings of the secret lives of concubines behind closed doors, songs for lost loves, and comedic plays? Heck, stories can be found (and are sometimes deliberately) placed in murals and pottery and other people use games to tell stories just like some of us do with our sims. Granted some of those examples might be outdated but I think the picture's there.

They don't have to be completely restricted by their lifestyles. There were nomadic and travelling entertainers - maybe your peasants were rummaging through the garbage when they hear one speak of their adventures in a tavern and snuck in to join them. Or your sims could maybe just be overhearing the maids tell tales while doing the laundry. It's too bad that we don't have more options because then you could have your sims stopping on their way to market to watch a public play or an interpretative dance on the streets. If you want to include painting and pottery, maybe you could make up a story where an outlaw stole the art pieces but was so enchanted by the story depicted in them that it inspired them to create something as well.

I can't suggest any mods that the others haven't already offered but a lot of the game requires creative thinking (or just completely ignoring whatever doesn't fit!) on the players' part as well. I think you can spin a story and use these workarounds to make them work for you. After all, not all lower class people spent 24 hours solely slaving away or most of us wouldn't be alive right now.

My life is a series of incomprehensible sketches, illegible notes, and running away from angry reptiles. I don't enjoy that last one.
Mad Poster
#19 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 7:44 PM
One thing about literacy that is hard for moderns to wrap our heads around is, that it's perfectly possible to be able to read and not write. A lot of Tudor middle-class women whom we would count as "illiterate" because they couldn't sign their names, and restricted from an educational system that didn't count a person as well-educated if they couldn't write Latin and read Greek, could read their own language just fine. A room full of women bent over their needlework (which had to be done almost constantly to keep people clothed) would be listening to one of their number reading out of a book in the vernacular and discussing the story, poem, history, or whatever among themselves like fans geeking out over their favorite shows on tumblr.

The same would happen in peasant households, except that instead of a rotating cast of readers, they would tell each other stories as they worked, and perhaps the oldest beldame, who couldn't see well enough to sew anymore, would sit there spinning and telling all the stories she ever heard. And they would sing, perhaps with one carrying the main story of a long song like The Hunting of the Cheviot while everyone chipped in on the chorus. And the thing about oral literature is that it's constantly in revision, with the boring and inessential bits getting cut and the good parts endlessly polished in the mouths of the tellers, till what you have left is a gem of concision and emotional punch.

"There shall no cape go on my back, nor comb go in my hair, nor neither coal nor candlelight shine in my bower mair, nor will I choose another love until the day I dee, since the lowlands of Holland have twined my love and me." "Oh western wind, when wilt thou blow? The small rain down can rain. Christ! That my love were in my arms, and I in my bed again." "I put my back against an oak, thinking it was a trusty tree, but first it bent, and then it broke, and so did my true love to me. Waly, waly, but love be bonny, a little while when first it's new! But when tis old it waxeth cold, and fades away like morning dew."

(Um, sorry, got carried away.)

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Instructor
#20 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 7:57 PM
I'm afraid I only vaguely recognize the last reference, Peni. The Water is Wide?

I think The Canterbury Tales (I seriously need a good copy of it) is a good example of how stories among lower class citizens (though not all of the characters are, which is also important) are told. In a nutshell they have a storytelling contest wherein the winner gets a free meal at a tavern but the losers must pay for it. Incentive enough to put your imagination to overdrive, if you ask me! And the story takes place during a pilgrimage, which wasn't totally alien to weavers, housewives, and the like.

My life is a series of incomprehensible sketches, illegible notes, and running away from angry reptiles. I don't enjoy that last one.
Mad Poster
#21 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 8:11 PM
Modern singers often combine Waly Waly with The Water is Wide, but if you look in the ballad books you'll find it as a song on its own. I think it's standalone in Childe. They work well to the same tune, but the solidarity of the couple rowing the boat together in The Water is Wide doesn't mesh well with the despair of Waly Waly IMHO. The Water is Wide is about being separated; Waly Waly is about being deserted. And in the ballad tradition, women are always putting their backs against trees to give birth, so even though it isn't explicitly mentioned in the lyrics the implication that she's been knocked up and abandoned is strong once you've absorbed enough ballads.

And The Canterbury Tales are a good offset to modern images of the separation of classes in the past. Every noble household had a lot of commoners in it doing the work that made the noble lifestyle possible. That room full of sewing women would have been primarily composed of workers from a lower stratum of society than the mistress of the house presiding over them, and reading aloud to keep production moving would have been a natural part of a literate mistress's job in supervising an illiterate group. Among Tudors, there would have been a significant number of sober-minded mistresses who felt it their duty to read to their servants in order to improve their minds and manners. Which sometimes meant that they didn't read the interesting stuff! And once people took to the road, no one could control the company they kept.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
#22 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 8:12 PM
@Sketching There is a "reply" under the comment third from right. I wish this forum could do multiple instead of having it to reload the page for the big reply post box *sigh* Copy&Pasting into new tab is tedious and not fun.
Inventor
Original Poster
#23 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 8:30 PM
My lower rank classes sims are allowed other knowledge/skilling beside using a bookcase, so activities like pottery, sewing, tinkering/science (blacksmiths), painting, etc are easy to play by any of the classes (although some sims do it more than others). Even with music/singing I dont think you need to learn it from an education that require reading.

Hobbies with "&", I like to treat as separated and often interpret "film" for fame instead like a sims from higher classes or sims aspiring to become something bigger. Beside the Sophie-David invisible microphone, I'm not sure if sims actually can do an act/play beside doing music. Currently use crystal ball hacked objects for TV's and by the comments I do plan to check out the podiums and storytelling as the main activities for sims who cant own a bookcase. Singing something is something i connect the music & dance hobby with though, which I expanded into three groups: Singing (Charisma), Dancing (Body), Playing Music (Creative).

Justpetro. Oops, It sounded like you thought I didn't allow ANY sims to able to read. :I must be a bit tired today
Instructor
#24 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 8:39 PM Last edited by Sketching : 17th Oct 2017 at 8:54 PM. Reason: compelled to fix wrong spelling!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peni Griffin
Modern singers often combine Waly Waly with The Water is Wide, but if you look in the ballad books you'll find it as a song on its own. I think it's standalone in Childe. They work well to the same tune, but the solidarity of the couple rowing the boat together in The Water is Wide doesn't mesh well with the despair of Waly Waly IMHO. The Water is Wide is about being separated; Waly Waly is about being deserted. And in the ballad tradition, women are always putting their backs against trees to give birth, so even though it isn't explicitly mentioned in the lyrics the implication that she's been knocked up and abandoned is strong once you've absorbed enough ballads.

And The Canterbury Tales are a good offset to modern images of the separation of classes in the past. Every noble household had a lot of commoners in it doing the work that made the noble lifestyle possible. That room full of sewing women would have been primarily composed of workers from a lower stratum of society than the mistress of the house presiding over them, and reading aloud to keep production moving would have been a natural part of a literate mistress's job in supervising an illiterate group. Among Tudors, there would have been a significant number of sober-minded mistresses who felt it their duty to read to their servants in order to improve their minds and manners. Which sometimes meant that they didn't read the interesting stuff! And once people took to the road, no one could control the company they kept.


Oh, so that's why I felt a sort of dissonance when I heard it - the sentiments weren't exactly the same. That was educational.

Exactly - some nobles even outright demanded that their workers be at least somewhat educated (may or may not include literacy), especially those who would be accompanying their children. And several of the servants in waiting would later bring their own family members in to work or try to pass on those stories/lessons to them, so that only spreads the possible knowledge they acquired during their time. Carriage rides and travels took so long back then that you'd expect that the voyagers would end up talking to each other anyway.

And the quote works! Thanks, @SneakyWingPhoenix. You're right though, it's a bit difficult if you want to quote more than one person. It's easier to just mention them in the text but sometimes you yourself forget what the original poster said.

@Florentzina It's really too bad that we can't have more options for this. I hope we managed to help you out somehow.

My life is a series of incomprehensible sketches, illegible notes, and running away from angry reptiles. I don't enjoy that last one.
Top Secret Researcher
#25 Old 17th Oct 2017 at 9:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florentzina
(It's rather annoying to keep having knowledge poor sims getting books when they are imagined to not be able to read them).

How are they getting books? Do you mean on community lots when you're not controlling them? Do sims even read autonomously on lots other than their home lot?
Inventor
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Original Poster
17th Oct 2017 at 9:38 PM
This message has been deleted by Florentzina. Reason: double post
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